Hump day links
Jan 14
2009
Filed in: Links, Chicago Criterium


Comments (28)

Comments

1.

Jan 14
2009

11:46 am

(xXx-Athletico)

I’m taking bets on how quickly the Hillsboro registration crashes.  I’d guess under 10 mins.

2.

Jan 14
2009

12:00 pm

Luke Seemann's avatar

Luke Seemann (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

Naw, Bike Reg is pretty good. I don’t expect any technical problems.

Better bet is how soon the fields fill. I put the 5’s over/under at 12 hours. The 4’s may take a day and a half. I would be surprised, however, if the 3’s fill. (These would all be shorter if it were a Monday and not a Sunday.)

3.

Jan 14
2009

12:22 pm

(Project 5)

Thanks Waylon for starting the forums! I think it will be a valuable resource as well as a place to chat for Chi area racers and cyclists!!

4.

Jan 14
2009

1:54 pm

plobby (WDT)

No problem! I hope everyone enjoys it :)

One quick correction though—I forgot to update Luke on this. There is no more USSR right now - I joined WDT back in November.

5.

Jan 15
2009

10:06 am

quickkarl's avatar

quickkarl (Wild Card Cycling)

Hurry up March !

6.

Jan 15
2009

5:42 pm

(Project 5)

From the ICA website: “a rider’s real cost to pre-register will increase by approximately $2.50” This sounds like “Fuzzy Logic”.  No, a rider’s real cost will increase by $5.  The promoter will only be able to pocket an additional $2.50 per rider. 

Also, I think that a 25% increase is a little larger than “a hair"…

Jim

7.

Jan 15
2009

6:40 pm

Luke Seemann's avatar

Luke Seemann (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

Don’t forget the $1 extra that goes to USAC. As far as I can tell, the remaining $1.50 is the well-known Nice Round Number Tax.

Whether it’s a “hair” is, well, splitting hairs. Relative to historic entry fees of $20-$35, sure, $5 is an arm and a leg. But relative to $3,000 bikes, $1,000 wheelsets and $100/month coaching plans, it’s indeed a hair. (Not that I desire to be nickel-and-dimed back into being a runner.)

8.

Jan 16
2009

12:52 am

Rooster's avatar

Rooster (Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

I’m with Jim on the double-take, the typical race fee is increasing by $5 because USAC’s insurance costs went up by $1? Day-of registration is getting completely smoked on this one. This is creating one more hoop to jump through in order to make it in road cycling.

Speaking from a club that hasn’t put on a USAC event, I’ll respect my boundaries…

I understand pre-registration is an excellent aid to participants and eases the strain on organizers. But still, isn’t this a rather opportunistic move? What happened to doing everything possible to better promote participation in the sport? Passing the punch onto your customers all the while sneaking in a little bit on the top is tough to see as being in the interest of promoting the good of the sport. I also think there still is a good pocket of people that are still interested in paying on raceday. The majority of them being newcomers?

It’s tricky to get excited and into bike racing. It’s no longer just a weight-weening contest it’s also turning into an online account contest.

Ah well. The people the majority of us that have always raced will all still pony up and forget about it a few months into the season. Self included...real talk.

Peace
JP

9.

Jan 16
2009

9:01 am

Luke Seemann's avatar

Luke Seemann (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

It’s a good point: Many of us (myself included) tend to forget about the guys without the blingy bikes and fancy coaches, or the athletes just dipping a toe into the sport. $5 here and $5 there and suddenly you’re talking about real money. Maybe promoters can be encouraged to at least discount the Cat 5’s and women’s Cat 4’s? I know those races need to subsidize the payouts for the higher categories, but it starts to get ridiculous when you’re paying $35 for a 20-minute race.

10.

Jan 16
2009

10:21 am

quickkarl's avatar

quickkarl (Wild Card Cycling)

kinda agree with Luke on that last one, being an old guy new to the sport i didnt think it was right for a 5 to ride shorter, pay the same and the winner at least not getting his entry fee back? medals?

11.

Jan 16
2009

2:03 pm

(Unattached)

I just came off a year of racing as a 5.  5’s may be taking the least hit of all!  Because of the small field sizes, I pre-registered for nearly every race last year.  Because of that, I paid the additional fee, plus the race fee.  These “increased” fees aren’t really much of an increase to us pre-registerers. 

Not to mention that this seems to be a convention adopted by the Illinois Cup races and not necessarily anybody else.  I did the 30+ Cat 5’s races at the ABR Memorial Day series last year and those were only $10/race.  There is still plenty of inexpensive racing out there.

And, because we’re griping, I can’t help but to drag Superweek into this.  Pre-registration with a credit card cost me $32-35 PER RACE.  And, that was for 4/5 races that were often started severly late and cut fairly short. This minor increase isn’t too bad.

12.

Jan 16
2009

5:22 pm

Rooster's avatar

Rooster (Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

True, this is only ICA but if they intend to encompass more of the sport, this is a concern for them and everyone else. I don’t wish to paint ICA in bad light, I’d certainly like to help them through my participation and through this medium, provide some constructive criticism. I’m surrounded by a completely different target market: less web-savvy people who are just as passionate yet very concerned about financial restrictions when considering participation.

Pre-registration is a luxury and it costs money to have a luxury. I would bet a good majority of those who pre-register consider their $2.50 fee a fair compensation for peace of mind and a hassle free start to their raceday.

I don’t understand the argument that bike racing is comparable to other sports, therefore the price to participate should still be considered a steal. The only comparisons I could imagine are running events and triathlons, sure both have expensive registration but they are very sparse activities with very little recurring participation in comparison. Cycling is a huge financial commitment and if everyone were to look at the cost of getting started and weighed that with their potential frequency of participating, raising everyday race fees is a huge turn-off. Was this considered?

I would also think the ‘cross community would be a bit unhappy about this. This doesn’t help a sport that’s looking to draw people in to pay for “offseason” training. In the interest of expanding the community, since cyclocross is probably being the most welcoming discipline to newbies, making the registration fee 25% more expensive is a whole lot of straws on a very stacked back.

13.

Jan 16
2009

5:41 pm

(Team Pegasus)

I’m with Jeff, while I understand that there are riders out there rolling with $4000 in equipment and coaching. That does not speak to the majority of my club, nor most of my friends who race. A $5 increase per race because of a $1 insurance increase seems quite unjustified. I personally would be a lot less likely to race non-target races if they cost $30 or $35 as opposed to $25, and I don’t think I’m alone in this sentiment. For a sport that is already prohibitively expensive for many, I’d like to see more efforts made to decrease race costs, not the opposite.

14.

Jan 16
2009

7:18 pm

Val (Bouledogue Tout Noir)

I don’t understand the logic behind racing entry fees, maybe because I’ve had a long week or something.  But where are the other $4 going?  Or I guess $1.50 after the promoter/USAC get their share?  I think the ICA really needs to clarify this. 

Raising entry fees seems pretty counter productive, and a great way to not increase ridership, when so many people are losing their jobs and/or cutting luxuries out of their life.

15.

Jan 16
2009

7:23 pm

Val (Bouledogue Tout Noir)

(Oops, I meant raising entry fees, not racing entry fees)

16.

Jan 16
2009

8:26 pm

Matt Smith (Burnham Racing)

Pre-entry is not a luxury for the racer - it’s a benefit for the race promoter…

17.

Jan 16
2009

9:15 pm

ABR rules.

18.

Jan 17
2009

8:32 am

Rooster's avatar

Rooster (Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

No one is threatening castration, so I’m not looking to split hairs here.*

I’m not ignant to the fact that pre-reg’s greatest benefit is for the promoter. I’d even contest it’s most beneficial to organizations that want to stockpile contact information. It should be encouraged for more affluent bike racers and I intend to do it as much as possible to help out organizers AND ease raceday stressors (I’m many things in my free time, but certainly not punctual).

I think by making it into a financial penalty for not taking up this practice, however, is walking the lines of elitism. Those that are less experienced/knowledgable are taking a direct hit with this. If you’re looking to be competitive in recruitment of racers and expansion in participation, this is a poor judgment.

Luxury is as much being able to register immediately online for a big race (see:the great race for Hillsboro) as it is to have carbon wheels. As we progress, we see these things as necessities. The ICA has progressed greatly but I hope it doesn’t lose sight of it’s participant body that far outnumbers it’s organizing and voting body. As representatives, I hope they don’t lose the ability to discern what are necessities and what are luxuries.

To say this is a crippling move is an overstatement but it’s certainly a worrisome first few steps for a growing organization.

Peace
JP

*prime for spotting the reference

19.

Jan 17
2009

8:41 am

Val (Bouledogue Tout Noir)

Well said Rooster, as were all your previous comments.  I completely agree with you.

20.

Jan 17
2009

8:49 am

Val (Bouledogue Tout Noir)

Oh and The Big Lebowski.

21.

Jan 17
2009

7:04 pm

Rooster's avatar

Rooster (Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

Sorry Kristen

22.

Jan 21
2009

2:50 pm

Hi all,

I’m Jason Knauff, the ICA’s registration and results coordinator for 2009. I just wanted to respond to some of your comments above. Sorry this is so long and in multiple pieces.

1st off, Thank you for all of your comments. Not to sound cliché but the ICA values all of your opinions as we try to improve the sport of cycling in IL.
If we don’t know your thoughts and ideas we can’t respond and make decisions based on the common good.

2nd, None of the ICA directors or volunteers are compensated for their work. We all are involved because we love bike racing and want to improve competitive cycling in IL. In addition to jobs, families, etc, etc, etc, (and occasionally trying to ride bikes ourselves) there is a lot of hard work that has already taken place since the Autumn of 2008 and will continue into the summer of 2009.
We encourage anyone else who is unsatisfied or just wants to help with bike racing in IL to get involved with the ICA.

3rd, The ICA is attempting to be as transparent and open as possible. As part of this goal, all ICA meetings and minutes have been announced and posted on illinoiscycling.org. All meetings (where ideas have been vetted and decided upon) were and continue to be open to the public.
Attendance has been decidedly lite… so we again encourage all cyclists to attend these meetings, have your voice heard, and contribute to improving cycling in IL. If you can’t make it… email or call us and we will make a special point of discussing your issue/topic in your absence.

23.

Jan 21
2009

2:53 pm

4th, The number one complaint I heard from racers in 2008 (besides SuperWeek races running late) was that results were both untimely and often incorrect. The mantra here is “Garbage in, garbage out”. While we’re all out their racing to have a good time, I would venture to say >90% of you at least check to see your result after a race. Compiling results does not start when the first person crosses the finish line, but when the first person registers for the race.

Are you fed up with competing in a race and never seeing your name in the results (or having your name misspelled or being placed 34th when you know you finished 12th)? The ICA is trying to make sure every racer from 1st place through 101st place has their name correctly printed in the results in a timely fashion. If we can’t read your handwriting on your release form (and most of the time we can’t!), your result has a significant chance of not being correct, hence the push for preregistration.

The ICA is putting together a complete registration through results system which starts with helping promoters prepare registration materials for their race and finishes with making sure complete and accurate results are posted to the USAC (and other) websites in a timely fashion… not weeks later.

5th, PreRegistration is not a luxury. In fact in my experiences the Midwest is far behind other areas of the country such as New England, California, Florida, the MidAtlantic, and Texas where the bike racing populations are larger, more diverse, and nearly every race uses online pre-registration (some races are only pre-reg!). The promoters out in Quad Cities have their reasons* (see below) but how many of you would rather sign up for Snake Alley online rather than snail mailing your entry each year?
Preregistration is not, and will likely never be, mandatory for the majority of races. But the ICA is trying to incentivize as many people as possible to pre-reg, to make the entire registration through results process better (see above). As a parallel, owning an annual USAC license is also not mandatory, but if you want to race Category 3 or higher you need one. I don’t know anyone who considers owning a USAC license a luxury.

24.

Jan 21
2009

2:55 pm

6th, $5 increase - Promoters. We all know money is tight these days and the ICA did not propose the entry fee increase lightly or without debating about it for a long, long time. The $5 increase is in no way mandatory to promoters and we have suggested promoters NOT apply it to Juniors and Cat 4 Women (almost always the smallest and least rewarded fields). Some promoters may still choose to keep their entry fees the same and/or pass any service fees on to the racers, and some may not even use BikeReg. But we are asking all promoters to make the change so that all races are consistent from a registration stand point.

Anyone who has ever been promoted a race knows that bike races operate on the slimmest of margins. Even with an additional $1.5 per racer, no promoter is going to get rich and those additional monies will most likely be plowed back into the race to make it a better event. If your gripe is that the promoters will be making more, remember that day-of registrations always bring in more money for the promoter since there is no online service fee. Finally, remember that a race is most team’s/club’s annual fund raiser and in some cases (Hillsboro, Groundhog CX) all of the profit goes to charity.

If you are really concerned about entry fees, start at the source… the promoter… and ask them to do any of these things:
- Decrease payouts, especially at the Pro/1/2 level which are almost always subsidized by the lower categories (only the top few guys walk away with a ton $$$ anyway),
- Lengthen the races of the lower categories thereby giving you more bang for your buck, or
- Deeply discount a 2nd of 3rd race… the cost to the promoter is usually only a bib # (pennies) and you get more racing time.

25.

Jan 21
2009

2:58 pm

7th, $5 increase - Racers. The nice round number of $5 was chosen to incorporate both the additional $1 USAC insurance fee charged to the promoter (up from $2 to $3) and the ~$2.60 BikeReg service fee (for entry fees between $20 and $30). We have asked promoters to absorb the BikeReg fee so at the end of the day, the promoter is only gaining an extra $1.4 (less at more expensive races since online reg fees are calc’d on a sliding scale based on the entry fee). We could have asked promoters to increase their fees by $3.6, but we didn’t want anyone fumbling around for change in the registration line while 20 other people are waiting behind and prereg’d… plus there would be no economic incentive to register online.

No one is trying to be elitist here, but claiming ignorance/inexperience is unfair to the rest of us who have taken the time to learn a new system. If you’d like help, shoot me an email (jason period knauff at gmail dot com) and I’ll help you through the process… you can even come over and use my computer. And as much as I’d love to let everyone race for free with thousand dollar payouts down to 35th place… bicycle racing itself is a luxury and is a sport with a price of admission. I never want to tell anyone not to come out and race, but if you can’t afford it, stay home, go for a free training ride, and show up next weekend and race better not having to worry about how much you paid for entry fees.

26.

Jan 21
2009

3:00 pm

8th, BikeReg was chosen as the ICA’s preferred online registration site after an extensive due diligence process to find the best online provider. While most online registration sites are similar in many ways, BikeReg is unique in that they:
- Focus on bicycle racing only (i.e. not running, triathlons, etc),
- Have a dedicated section of their site for the ICA (look for Illinois Cycling Assoc),
- Have many other relationships with local USAC associations, teams, and event series, and
- Are giving back $0.25 of each racer service fee to the ICA to be put towards things like safety equipment, state championship jerseys, finish line cameras, etc.
BikeReg also handles much larger events that fill up much faster than Hillsboro… if the site goes down, Mr. Moyer I’ll owe you a ClifBar. As far as anyone not having access to a computer… your local public library has free access to the World Wide Interwebs** and if you can’t make it there… again… shoot me an email (jason period knauff at gmail dot com) and you can come over and use my computer.

At the end of the day the ICA’s very existence is predicated on ensuring safe, enjoyable, and competitive cycling in IL. Its new mission statement is “Our mission is to provide the support structure, technical expertise and specific benefits to our members in order to advance high-quality competitive cycling in Illinois.” The steps the ICA is taking now are laying the groundwork to make sure high quality (not necessarily quantity) bike racing in IL is around for a long time to come. As Mr. Seamann says himself, the foundation of a successful season is laid in the offseason… or something like that.

27.

Jan 21
2009

3:07 pm

I hope the above points have helped you to understand why the ICA is proposing changes to the current system.
If you have any questions, concerns, ideas, or just want to get involved, don’t hesitate to contact me directly!

Jason Knauff
ICA Registration & Results Coordinator
Director - Chicago Cyclocross Cup

*The Quad Cities promoters have a dedicated registrar who runs a very tight and organized registration process. While I’d love to see preregistration for these races online, as long as their events are run in an organized and professional manner, I whole heartedly agree with the promoters’ and registrar’s decision to use snail mail.
** Bonus Prime for citing that reference!

28.

Jan 22
2009

11:29 am

John Wilke

FYI - there is also the “Cyclo Frost” cyclocross race at 10am in Madison on Sunday Feb. 15 associated with Winter Festival.

http://www.winter-fest.com/site_pages/Information/fun-to-watch/cyclo_frost.html

 

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