Choo Choo (Burnham Racing)

I can tell you the Georgia Cup uses them for all of their races and has had lots of success.  Many riders I believe by their own chip and bring to the race just as they do their own helmet.  The promoter is very quick to respond and contact info is at the bottom if someone is trying to figure out a system…  http://www.georgiacup.com/

Matt Smith (Burnham Racing)

follow-up:  chips make perfect sense for timed events, i.e. running, or true stage races.

The majority of racing we do doesn’t even deal with time—only position.  Crits, even road races—if there’s a five minute gap between 3rd and 4th it doesn’t matter; it’s still 3rd and 4th.

Chips sound nice, but we won’t realize their full potential here in illinois.  Is it worth the extra cost?  The bigger races usually have professional cameras, anyway.

thesuperrookie (Grumpy's/LGR)

1) The new technology for chips is such that they can still record whose tire crosses the plane of the finish line first (this is done by a sensing loop that is only 1ft apart and takes the time between those two points to come up with the average time, thus the first one across the line…if you need help understanding ask Matt Moran, he is a math teacher).

2) They use this system in Florida and the challenges to the results are very few and far between as the system accurately records riders even if 10 cross at once.

THE DOWNSIDE:

It is expensive as hell. In Florida, and up here they have tried to have riders purchase their own chips for $110. These chips can be taken with you and kept on your bike, sadly not everyone is going to have one/money/knowledge of the chips and they are forced to rent them.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (Alberto's Sport)

All chip timing systems have cameras - but they are the safety net, not the lead system. As an aside, the system scores exactly to the line. It is used in Nascar, motorcycle racing etc…. Obviously the closer to the skewer we mount the chip the more accurate because of the same diameter of the wheel.

However, the Tour de France mounts the chips on the exact line on the rear chain stay of every bike. The GGP will use a T-square type device that goes from the leading edge of the tire to the rear chain stay we make a mark with dry erase and mount the chip there.  The system will score down to less than an inch and is capable of scoring 80 riders a second at speeds to 40 miles an hour.

This is the future of cycling - especially criteriums. Why? It is fast and accurate. It will reduce the amount of whining about results. It absolutely reduces the work of promoters. It will score down to the last rider when the race officials only feel like scoring to 15th place and you were certain you were 18th. The advantages are immense. It will give you time, average speed, best lap, lots of data you would not otherwise get.

Further, during the race, every time a cyclist crosses the finish line, his data appears on a screen in real time. That allows the announcer to call the race that much better. Instead of “Rider number 125 is in first place! That is, uh, um, where’s the sheet?” You’ll get name, average speed, time per lap, race team (if attached), etc. It is light years ahead of the simple camera.

Finally, it will cost more to race. While triathlons are upwards of $100 these days to race, criteriums will go up by $5 to $10. If you buy your own chip, it will be less. And at $95 for a chip you’ll make your money back in no time if you race a lot. And though not cheap, $95 is a middle expense to someone who is paying a lot for a bike, wheel sets, clothing, etc.

Bottom line is chip timing is totally professional and accurate. Something the GGP thinks the cycling community deserves. The more it is used the more it will be expected. I’m sure of it. What rider wants to go home p*ssed off because of poor or slow scoring or results or not getting a result because scoring didn’t go too deep?  No race director wants that for his fields. I admit, I had a scoring problem last year in one of the races which caused me to do this. This is the future everyone. You heard it here first.

Julian (Burnham Racing)

To the point about Chip timing- currently is costs an average of what, $30 to race… $50 if you double up and receive a discount. 

Good luck convincing a cyclist who has already shelled out lord knows how much on a silly bike and spend a full tank of gas to drive to lord knows where to pay another $10 to race. 

After looking at the survey results from the Spring Super Crit it was OVERWHELMING how many expressed their desire to have cheaper racing even if it means a lesser prize list or none at all. 

So while the use of chip timing is neat-o and gee-golly spiffy if it adversely impacts the cost of an office-park crit, a 30 min + 1 crit, or a crit with a total of $200 to the top 4 I’m sure it’ll see riders being more and more selective about the events they race…to the detriment of our circuit.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

As a member of the South Chicago Wheelmen I worked closely with the 2 guys from AMB i.t. at Cobb Park.

They were very nice and answered all the questions I had for them.

No question it’s a cool system.  You can see your results immediately after the race.  When you get home you can log onto their site and see the results for the entire race.  There’s lots of information to pour over which makes the geek in all of us happy.

It’s cool but is it worth the cost?  $110 for the chip?  Seems about 3 times what it ought to cost. I can get an iPhone for $199.  Price those chips at $20 and we’d all buy them.

The sensors that are placed on the road (I think he called it a “staging window”) costs about $7000.  Start-up costs for this system are steep.

It’s clean, quick, and accurate and I’d vote for it.  The price of the chip remains unsettling to me: a bit like ceramic bearings: really cool but probably not worth it.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

I think that racers not worried about the cost of the chip should purchase them for the rest of us. If you can afford one chip you can afford two or three, right?

Choo Choo (Burnham Racing)

Chip Prime!

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (Project 5)

I think chip timing is a great thing.  However, if I buy a chip, will it work with all of the different timing sets out there?  I am going to make a SWAG and say “probably not”.  I hope someone can disabuse me of this way of thinking, but unless all of the chip timing manufacturers use a non-proprietary signal, the chip I will buy for x promoter will not work for y promoter.  Also, I wouldn’t bet on the price of these things going down.  It is a niche market as it is, so if people will pay the price, why whould the distributors drop the cost?

Steve Hansen

Par 2 of 2:

We are concerned about the cost.  We will need to charge promoters a fee to help recoup the cost of the side-line equipment.  The cost is more than $7,000.  Add in the laptops, power backup, large screen TV’s and we are looking at closer to $10,000 just to start it up. We are aware that we’d need to have chip timing at as many USA Cycling Events as possible.  For any of you to buy a chip you’ll need to know that you’ll be able to use it at 8-12 races a year at the least.  What we will charge for rentals and what we will charge to sell the chip is something we are negotiating hard with the chip people to keep it as affordable as possible.  While some will balk at the cost at any price, what good is it paying $25-30 for a race and not getting an accurate result?  We owe every racer from 1st place to 101st place an accurate result.  If we go with chip timing it will probably become mandatory.  You can’t have half the racers with chips and the other half without.

Yes, the camera is still needed. If we go with the Finish Lynx system then that is covered.  Chip primes are on our to-do list.  Races can now be accurately timed and knowing the exact distance of the course gives us the average speed of the whole race.  Who’s got the best speed ever on Cobb Park or any other of your favorite crit?  Track records so to speak.  That now becomes easy. 

The ICA will keep an eye on this thread to see what everyone thinks.  We are sending out a survey soon to all the racers who were chipped at Cobb Park to   get their input. We are asking our promoters what they think. We’ll invite out the Finish Lynx people to demo their equipment too.  The bottom line is to get everyone the best possible results on all our races.  Bicycle racers deserve something better than a handy cam from Best Buy on top of a 12’ step ladder.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

Um, this reminds me of when the Wimbledon introduced computer line call. 

Is noone going to miss the John McEnroe type of arguments with the official over your 37th place finish?

“You cannot be serious, that was clearly me going me across the finish line.”

One serious question.  Is this chip going to be required for the ICA races only or will it become a regional practice?

Half of the races Chicago racers do are outside of IL and if one does not need a $100+ dollar chip to race elsewhere, it might affect their season planning and the races they choose to race.  Or, buy the chip and keep it local and get their money’s worth.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Good point, Eric.  But we all know the trend is to rush forward to technology until it collapses from its own weight or it crushes us. 

If is moves forward, it is very important how it is handled from the promoter side.  Since this new technology is used on a particular race, the communication to the racers on race day becomes even more important.  Chips were used in a race a few weeks ago near St. Louis.  There was no information passed to the racers at registration to get the chip.  “It is posted on the web site and the sign for it is right there,” was snapped at me when I asked about it, as he pointed to a sign that was almost completely blocked by 2 racers and their bikes.  Great.  Thanks.  The racers attached them to their bike by themselves - on the chainstay.  Not only was this tricky to accomplish and not have the pedal hit it and still be attached firmly.  Obviously this position is not a good choice as it would give great concern on who crossed the line first.  Finally, the announcements made over the PA for the remainder of the day, giving racer’s names who had not returned the chip and warning of the $100 fee they would be charged sure put a negative aura over the event. 

Mandatory?  Sure I can see how that would be desired but I would be surprised as a first time racer to show up and have to hand over an additional $100 for a chip.  I sure hope I’ll have the cash on hand. 

I glad to read “…cameras are still needed”.  There will be those close calls and the occasional technical failure.  Yeah, I do have one in my car for iPass, but they don’t care “when” I crossed the line, just “that” I crossed the line.

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

The Fitchburg Longsjo classic used ankle chips a few years back… but then again that was only for the Circuit & Road Races. The TT was timed and the crit just used a camera. The chips worked well to keep track of who was on the lead lap. The organizers just collected the chips at the end of the day and if you didn’t turn yours in your got charged. I think a chip/camera system seems the most likely solution for crit racing here in IL.