Chicago Bike Racing

Chip timing makes debut

Jun 23
2008

Chip timing made its Chicago debut Saturday when the Illinois Cycling Association ran an experiment with a vendor’s system at the Cobb Park Criterium. A small transponder was zip-tied to each bike’s fork. During the races, laps were counted and timed to the thousandth of a second. Early reports are that it was a success. Complete, accurate results were available within minutes, and set-up was a breeze. “It was freakin’ awesome,” one rider told me.

Upfront costs would be steep, but the ICA is considering adopting such a system for 2009. I’ve always been skeptical myself, but after a few races where cameras have proven as fallible as humans, I have to concede it could be worthwhile thing to have -- if it does not drive up our rising race fees.

Has anyone used chip timing elsewhere? Is it reliable? Is it accurate in a 10-up sprint?

We’ll get another chance to try it out when the Glencoe Grand Prix uses chip timing in August.

Speaking of Glencoe, check out the winners jerseys that will be awarded in the elite races.

Comments

1.

Jun 23
2008

10:52 pm

I thought it was pretty reliable as the difference between 1 and 7 in the 4s race was 1.006 seconds. Also, as a bonus, they had the results almost immediately after the race finished with a nice print out as shown in the link above.

2.

Jun 24
2008

3:01 am

Choo Choo (vitaminwater-Trek)

I can tell you the Georgia Cup uses them for all of their races and has had lots of success. Many riders I believe by their own chip and bring to the race just as they do their own helmet. The promoter is very quick to respond and contact info is at the bottom if someone is trying to figure out a system… http://www.georgiacup.com/

3.

Jun 24
2008

7:15 am

Matt S. (vitaminwater-Trek)

I’m guessing you’d still need cameras, because the race is decided when your front tire breaks the plane of the finish line. You can’t mount a chip on your tire.

Even if the chips were mounted to identical spots on each bike (for example, front skewer), the chips will still be in a slightly different position from bike to bike, accounting for various frame sizes, geometries, and fork rakes.

I think it would be great for large fields--scoring 150 riders as quickly and accurately as 20 riders, but nothing can replace the “photo finish” for now.

Seems like a supplement to the finishline camera. A nice supplement, but a supplement, still.

4.

Jun 24
2008

7:20 am

Matt S. (vitaminwater-Trek)

follow-up: chips make perfect sense for timed events, i.e. running, or true stage races.

The majority of racing we do doesn’t even deal with time—only position. Crits, even road races—if there’s a five minute gap between 3rd and 4th it doesn’t matter; it’s still 3rd and 4th.

Chips sound nice, but we won’t realize their full potential here in illinois. Is it worth the extra cost? The bigger races usually have professional cameras, anyway.

5.

Jun 24
2008

7:52 am

I think the chips are great.

At the GACup events they often use chips and photos. The chips make for quick results which can be photo reviewed for extremely close times.

The photo still comes in handy, for example, when you decide to crash across the line and your rear tire crosses in 8th but the transponder on the front fork in 10th.

6.

Jun 24
2008

8:57 am

super rookie (Grumpy's/LGR)

1) The new technology for chips is such that they can still record whose tire crosses the plane of the finish line first (this is done by a sensing loop that is only 1ft apart and takes the time between those two points to come up with the average time, thus the first one across the line...if you need help understanding ask Matt Moran, he is a math teacher).

2) They use this system in Florida and the challenges to the results are very few and far between as the system accurately records riders even if 10 cross at once.

THE DOWNSIDE:

It is expensive as hell. In Florida, and up here they have tried to have riders purchase their own chips for $110. These chips can be taken with you and kept on your bike, sadly not everyone is going to have one/money/knowledge of the chips and they are forced to rent them.

7.

Jun 24
2008

9:11 am

(xXx Racing-AthletiCo)

Yes, you still need the camera. They had one at Cobb Park for backup/close finish purposes.

8.

Jun 24
2008

10:22 am

(Alberto's Sport)

All chip timing systems have cameras - but they are the safety net, not the lead system. As an aside, the system scores exactly to the line. It is used in Nascar, motorcycle racing etc.... Obviously the closer to the skewer we mount the chip the more accurate because of the same diameter of the wheel.

However, the Tour de France mounts the chips on the exact line on the rear chain stay of every bike. The GGP will use a T-square type device that goes from the leading edge of the tire to the rear chain stay we make a mark with dry erase and mount the chip there. The system will score down to less than an inch and is capable of scoring 80 riders a second at speeds to 40 miles an hour.

This is the future of cycling - especially criteriums. Why? It is fast and accurate. It will reduce the amount of whining about results. It absolutely reduces the work of promoters. It will score down to the last rider when the race officials only feel like scoring to 15th place and you were certain you were 18th. The advantages are immense. It will give you time, average speed, best lap, lots of data you would not otherwise get.

Further, during the race, every time a cyclist crosses the finish line, his data appears on a screen in real time. That allows the announcer to call the race that much better. Instead of “Rider number 125 is in first place! That is, uh, um, where’s the sheet?” You’ll get name, average speed, time per lap, race team (if attached), etc. It is light years ahead of the simple camera.

Finally, it will cost more to race. While triathlons are upwards of $100 these days to race, criteriums will go up by $5 to $10. If you buy your own chip, it will be less. And at $95 for a chip you’ll make your money back in no time if you race a lot. And though not cheap, $95 is a middle expense to someone who is paying a lot for a bike, wheel sets, clothing, etc.

Bottom line is chip timing is totally professional and accurate. Something the GGP thinks the cycling community deserves. The more it is used the more it will be expected. I’m sure of it. What rider wants to go home p*ssed off because of poor or slow scoring or results or not getting a result because scoring didn’t go too deep? No race director wants that for his fields. I admit, I had a scoring problem last year in one of the races which caused me to do this. This is the future everyone. You heard it here first.

9.

Jun 24
2008

10:29 am

Julian (vitaminwater-Trek)

Bulk solution to all cycling woes in Illinois:

The ICA Cup needs to be a consolidated series of events such as the WCA Cup. Bulk registration must be available at the beginning of the season that will allow riders to pre-register for any or all of the events at a discount thus ensuring participation and providing incentive for pre-registration and participation in the full ICA cup.

Each team from Illinois that wishes to be a sanctioned racing team must not only host a race (as is the current rule though there are teams that have yet to do so [I know, I know, TCMB was deliquent...]) but also pay a one-time fee of $X that will be used towards the purchase of a proper finish line camera system (FinishLynx...?) Said camera will be present at each of the ICA cup events and can be rented for a small fee by Illinois events outside the ICA cup. The Illinois Officials will be responsible for operating and maintaining the camera system and associated costs will come from team fees to be determined at a later date.

Teams that do not pay the fee will not be eligible for the ICA cup which will have tangible rewards.

Oh, Latvia’s seat on the Security Council will be a non-voting position until they comply with the Geneva Convention.

This concludes this meeting of the United Nations of Illinois Cycling.

10.

Jun 24
2008

10:35 am

Julian (vitaminwater-Trek)

To the point about Chip timing- currently is costs an average of what, $30 to race… $50 if you double up and receive a discount.

Good luck convincing a cyclist who has already shelled out lord knows how much on a silly bike and spend a full tank of gas to drive to lord knows where to pay another $10 to race.

After looking at the survey results from the Spring Super Crit it was OVERWHELMING how many expressed their desire to have cheaper racing even if it means a lesser prize list or none at all.

So while the use of chip timing is neat-o and gee-golly spiffy if it adversely impacts the cost of an office-park crit, a 30 min + 1 crit, or a crit with a total of $200 to the top 4 I’m sure it’ll see riders being more and more selective about the events they race...to the detriment of our circuit.

11.

Jun 24
2008

10:56 am

(xXx Racing-AthletiCo)

Other than the initial one-time expense of $100 for the chip, I don’t see why there is resistance to using chip timing. If you can’t afford $100 for the chip, but you can afford to race every weekend, race one less weekend or save those pennies.

Bike: $5K, every 2-5 years
New chain every 1.5K miles: $35+
New tires every 2K miles: $75+
Chip: $100 once, then use over and over and over and over…

12.

Jun 24
2008

10:58 am

As a member of the South Chicago Wheelmen I worked closely with the 2 guys from AMB i.t. at Cobb Park.

They were very nice and answered all the questions I had for them.

No question it’s a cool system. You can see your results immediately after the race. When you get home you can log onto their site and see the results for the entire race. There’s lots of information to pour over which makes the geek in all of us happy.

It’s cool but is it worth the cost? $110 for the chip? Seems about 3 times what it ought to cost. I can get an iPhone for $199. Price those chips at $20 and we’d all buy them.

The sensors that are placed on the road (I think he called it a “staging window\") costs about $7000. Start-up costs for this system are steep.

It’s clean, quick, and accurate and I’d vote for it. The price of the chip remains unsettling to me: a bit like ceramic bearings: really cool but probably not worth it.

13.

Jun 24
2008

2:14 pm

supertick (Beverly Bike-Vee Pak)

I’m with Jeff. I have never seen so many people worried over spending $100 that would ensure better racing for everyone involved. No more standing around for an hour after a race to find out they placed you in 16th position instead of 8th because your number was similar, then having to argue you about it with a promoter.

The more popular the system becomes and the more wide spread its use, it will undoubtedly become less expensive and chip prices will come down. Besides, the chip will probably pay for itself within 10-20 races depending on what the promoter wishes to charge for “renting” one.

Not to mention the fact that in cycling $100 doesn’t go that far. I have seen people spend $100 on two water bottle cages. Or ask yourself how much you spent just on supplements last year? I’m sure it was well over $100.

I vote for chip timing!

14.

Jun 24
2008

3:01 pm

(Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

I think that racers not worried about the cost of the chip should purchase them for the rest of us. If you can afford one chip you can afford two or three, right?

15.

Jun 24
2008

3:16 pm

Luke Seemann (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

While there are many riders able to blow $100 on carbon-fiber shoe horns, let us remember that there are a great many riders—college students, messengers, people “just curious” --getting their start on commuters and bikes they’ve built up from scraps, riders who get by on bananas and apples instead of fancy gels. Our sport is threatened if we make the barriers to entry too high, and every dollar tacked on matters.

Keep in mind that triathlons and marathons can charge up to $90 partly because they provide 2-6 hours of service. That’s $15-$45 an hour. (Heck, the slower you are, the more value you get!) But charging $40 for a 20-minute Cat 5 crit? That’s questionable.

But if a coalition of enough promoters can be formed, and if the costs can be spread over enough years, I could see the math working out. $1 extra a race? OK, fine. $10 extra, to a total of $40+? I’ll be out risking my neck on Judson instead.

Any system that results in fewer people racing will be misguided, IMHO.

16.

Jun 24
2008

4:25 pm

Choo Choo (vitaminwater-Trek)

Chip Prime!

17.

Jun 24
2008

4:32 pm

Let’s say you finish 40th in a race. How good does that chip look now? I guess you can see how far you crossed the line behind the winner right?

18.

Jun 24
2008

4:41 pm

Luke Seemann (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

Actually, I remember being a 5 and being really bummed when my results wouldn’t show up. One of my goals was to finish in the top half of a race—it took me a whole year. It would have been nice to know whether I got 35th or 40th or 50th at all those Superweek races I got dropped at. It might not mean much to us old-timers, but it can be important to rookies.

19.

Jun 24
2008

4:45 pm

Good point.

20.

Jun 24
2008

5:28 pm

(Team Apache)

I think chip timing is a great thing. However, if I buy a chip, will it work with all of the different timing sets out there? I am going to make a SWAG and say “probably not”. I hope someone can disabuse me of this way of thinking, but unless all of the chip timing manufacturers use a non-proprietary signal, the chip I will buy for x promoter will not work for y promoter. Also, I wouldn’t bet on the price of these things going down. It is a niche market as it is, so if people will pay the price, why whould the distributors drop the cost?

21.

Jun 24
2008

11:28 pm

Steve Hansen

Part 1 of 2:

I’ve read all the comments. I’ll cover as many of them as possible since I’m part of the ICA who will make the final decision.

I’ve talked to the promoter of the Georgia Cup and I’ve talked with the people in Florida who use this particular system, I’ve had conversations with other chip systems companies and the main non-chip photo finish system from Finish Lynx. It is important from the ICA’s perspective to make a well thought out decision. Whatever we do will have a major impact on racing going forward in Illinois. We want to get this right.

There are pluses and minuses of any system. Finish Lynx has a plus in that racers don’t have to buy or rent anything. But you don’t get the instant stats as easily and it is still tough to figure out who’s on what lap for those that are in the bottom half of a 75+ field. The chips can give you live data on every lap but then every racer gets involved in placing a chip on their bike and the personal expense. All these systems are very expensive. The sellers all say it is because the sport of bicycle racing is a small niche. But all these technologies are borrowed from other industries. The Finish Lynx line scan cameras were developed in the high speed production-line manufacturing industry for quality control purposes. And for the chips, you all have an iPass? Think of heavy traffic at 65+mph all getting their tolls recorded at hundreds of cars a minute and you can see where the chip people get some of their technology. An iPass costs you a $10 deposit so why does a small chip cost $110? Your not alone in the feeling of I’m getting taken for a ride camp.

22.

Jun 24
2008

11:30 pm

Steve Hansen

Par 2 of 2:

We are concerned about the cost. We will need to charge promoters a fee to help recoup the cost of the side-line equipment. The cost is more than $7,000. Add in the laptops, power backup, large screen TV’s and we are looking at closer to $10,000 just to start it up. We are aware that we’d need to have chip timing at as many USA Cycling Events as possible. For any of you to buy a chip you’ll need to know that you’ll be able to use it at 8-12 races a year at the least. What we will charge for rentals and what we will charge to sell the chip is something we are negotiating hard with the chip people to keep it as affordable as possible. While some will balk at the cost at any price, what good is it paying $25-30 for a race and not getting an accurate result? We owe every racer from 1st place to 101st place an accurate result. If we go with chip timing it will probably become mandatory. You can’t have half the racers with chips and the other half without.

Yes, the camera is still needed. If we go with the Finish Lynx system then that is covered. Chip primes are on our to-do list. Races can now be accurately timed and knowing the exact distance of the course gives us the average speed of the whole race. Who’s got the best speed ever on Cobb Park or any other of your favorite crit? Track records so to speak. That now becomes easy.

The ICA will keep an eye on this thread to see what everyone thinks. We are sending out a survey soon to all the racers who were chipped at Cobb Park to get their input. We are asking our promoters what they think. We’ll invite out the Finish Lynx people to demo their equipment too. The bottom line is to get everyone the best possible results on all our races. Bicycle racers deserve something better than a handy cam from Best Buy on top of a 12’ step ladder.

23.

Jun 25
2008

9:57 am

usrnull (Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

Just to add another comment to the bonfire, I agree that races of this duration should remain affordable, especially if you want people to gas up and come out every week or two.

Sure, bicycle racers may deserve better, but look at triathlons: what started out as a cross training event now costs $80, even for the sub one-hour events.

Same with 5 and 10k (running) races: I did one recently that cost me a dollar per minute of racing. The more expensive it gets, the more it becomes the kind of thing you only do a couple times a season.

If I can do 1-2 events at a crit for $25-45, I’m in. If this starts to creep up to $40-70, so we can all have millisecond lap splits...I don’t know.

I don’t mind buying a transponder, but not if I’m getting ripped off. I have one for running, and it cost me about $25.

Clearly the market can point us in the right direction: Given the choice between a $25 event with a handycam and a $40 event with lap splits, racers will vote with their feet in the long run.

24.

Jun 25
2008

10:46 am

(XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

Um, this reminds me of when the Wimbledon introduced computer line call.

Is noone going to miss the John McEnroe type of arguments with the official over your 37th place finish?

“You cannot be serious, that was clearly me going me across the finish line.”

One serious question. Is this chip going to be required for the ICA races only or will it become a regional practice?

Half of the races Chicago racers do are outside of IL and if one does not need a $100+ dollar chip to race elsewhere, it might affect their season planning and the races they choose to race. Or, buy the chip and keep it local and get their money’s worth.

25.

Jun 25
2008

2:49 pm

erik (xXx Racing - AthletiCo)

Has anyone thought about keeping things simple? We could issue fabric, reusable numbers that can be used year to year, along with matching numbers that are attached to the bike at a specific spot. Prior to a race, officials can check riders’ numbers… if they can’t see them, tell the rider to re-pin or take a hike. This would go a LONG way to simplifying event organization.

26.

Jun 25
2008

3:12 pm

Good point, Eric. But we all know the trend is to rush forward to technology until it collapses from its own weight or it crushes us.

If is moves forward, it is very important how it is handled from the promoter side. Since this new technology is used on a particular race, the communication to the racers on race day becomes even more important. Chips were used in a race a few weeks ago near St. Louis. There was no information passed to the racers at registration to get the chip. “It is posted on the web site and the sign for it is right there,” was snapped at me when I asked about it, as he pointed to a sign that was almost completely blocked by 2 racers and their bikes. Great. Thanks. The racers attached them to their bike by themselves - on the chainstay. Not only was this tricky to accomplish and not have the pedal hit it and still be attached firmly. Obviously this position is not a good choice as it would give great concern on who crossed the line first. Finally, the announcements made over the PA for the remainder of the day, giving racer’s names who had not returned the chip and warning of the $100 fee they would be charged sure put a negative aura over the event.

Mandatory? Sure I can see how that would be desired but I would be surprised as a first time racer to show up and have to hand over an additional $100 for a chip. I sure hope I’ll have the cash on hand.

I glad to read “…cameras are still needed”. There will be those close calls and the occasional technical failure. Yeah, I do have one in my car for iPass, but they don’t care “when” I crossed the line, just “that” I crossed the line.

27.

Jun 25
2008

10:21 pm

Peter Allen (XXX Racing/Athletico)

I had chips (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_fries) and chips (http://www.championchipusa.com/home.html) on Patriot’s Day 12 years ago in Boston. I don’t know what’s so new about them. That’s like saying social networking is new (hasn’t anyone ever heard of USENET)? BTW, I have no idea why it would cost $100 to buy one (I usually see them sold for about $30).

Still, keep the cameras rolling.

28.

Jun 26
2008

8:26 am

The Fitchburg Longsjo classic used ankle chips a few years back… but then again that was only for the Circuit & Road Races. The TT was timed and the crit just used a camera. The chips worked well to keep track of who was on the lead lap. The organizers just collected the chips at the end of the day and if you didn’t turn yours in your got charged. I think a chip/camera system seems the most likely solution for crit racing here in IL.

Chip timing makes debut

Comments

Choo Choo (vitaminwater-Trek)

Matt S. (vitaminwater-Trek)

Matt S. (vitaminwater-Trek)

super rookie (Grumpy's/LGR)

(xXx Racing-AthletiCo)

(Alberto's Sport)

Julian (vitaminwater-Trek)

Julian (vitaminwater-Trek)

(xXx Racing-AthletiCo)

supertick (Beverly Bike-Vee Pak)

(Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

Luke Seemann (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

Choo Choo (vitaminwater-Trek)

Luke Seemann (XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

(Team Apache)

Steve Hansen

Steve Hansen

usrnull (Chicago Cuttin' Crew)

(XXX Racing-AthletiCo)

erik (xXx Racing - AthletiCo)

Peter Allen (XXX Racing/Athletico)

REcent comments

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