Had the pleasure to ride and drink some beer with Floyd Yesterday. What a class act. One of the most down to earth professional athletes around. If you havent read the book, get it. I also reccommend reading through the power point presentation on the website. My prayers are with you, Floyd! I hope you hear some good news soon so you can get back to doing what you do best.

jR

What a class act. One of the most down to earth professional athletes around.

ummmm. okay. I bet Gregg LeMond has something to say about that.

I was all about Floyd. Yet, he proved what kind of individual he was when he showed up on the day of LeMond's testimony in an all black suit(not in his normal yellow tie) and when his best friend/personal business manager called LeMond in a threatening manner.

Yeah. A real class act.

Dude...if LeMond had any class, he would keep his mouth shut till the verdict is final...

"innocent until proven guilty"

right comrade?

jR

At the Wheaton event, someone asked if he would be up for a group ride while he was here. He kinda hemmed and hawed a bit and then said he wasn't able to. The guy is pretty tranparent; in other words, he is pretty easy to read. I figured from his reponse that he was going to get a ride in while he was here but didn't want 100 people to show up. Could you imagine trying to do a 100 person group ride on the lakefront path?? Yeah, that would have been... dangerous.

I considered responding to super rookie, but I will withold my response. We don't want this thread to turn into a flame.

"innocent until proven guilty"

Already proven guilty with the two positive tests.

LeMond also never said anything about Landis being guilty. All he ever said was "Floyd, if your 'b' sample comes back positive it would be better to come clean than fight it."

I considered responding to super rookie, but I will withold my response. We don't want this thread to turn into a flame.

What possible response could be against what I said? The guy has serious character flaws.

I also forgot to mention the posting to the message board that was also on TbV (a great site) that Floyd admitted to writing about how he 'was going to show LeMond who was boss etc...'

One more question:

In the past 2 weeks 4 more pro-cyclists have been popped for Testosterone. Do you think this is a coincidence?

Landis said it doesn't help, but others are getting popped for it.

Flame away, but don't think for a second that it is okay to protect/support dopers.

They are ruining our sport.

Lemond has a history of making wild statements to the press based on zero personal knowledge.

I'd be pissed too if Lemond stuck his fat fingers into my business!
If Lemond were a class act, which he's proven time and time again that he is not, he'd given the same response Eddy Merckx gave relative to Landis: "I know nothing about this case...I don't want to be mixed up in it, not up close, not at a distance."

Going after LeMond now.

That makes zero sense.

Once again blindly following the legacy of Lance and Landis, individuals are going after an individual that has everything to lose by helping clean the sport.

...

Joe Papp. What do you think of him? He came clean, as did Bergman, as did Moniger. Why doesn't Landis man up?

Why doesn't Landis man up?

Isn't "manning up" what got him in this mess to begin with?

Ba-bum-bum!

Moninger came clean? That's news to me. His claim was that he was the victim of a tainted supplement (and had independent lab results to prove it).

The only "blind following" I see here is you, super-rookie. From your comments, it doesn't seem that you've bothered yourself to look past the Dick Pound press releases into Floyd's case.

Fine since it is took late to keep this thread from flaming, Super Rookie... You say Landis has no class, but you are making the assumption that Lemond has class. If Lemond had class, he would have declined to testify like Merkx did instead of saying what he wanted and then refusing to testify about anything he didn't want to talk about. This reaks of the kid who says he is going to take his ball home if everyone else doesn't play by his rules. The guy is always looking for a podium to speak from. Also, Lemond would be more likely to believe that someone dopes than not. So if someone is accused, he will gladly jump on the bandwagon which the press knows so always looks to him for comments which gives him a podium... The cycle continues.

With regards to Geoghan (sp?), the guy is known to be a loose cannon. It certainly wasn't Landis' best choice for a manager, but if you read the book, you will understand why he has some allegiance to the man.

Super Rookie, your tone in your first response resulted in all these responses which was probably your intent. You not only attacked Floyd in your response, but you also attacked the original person who posted by your sarcastic response which basically insinuated that the guy was an idiot for enjoying his ride with Floyd.

If everyone stops responding to Super Rookie, he will most likely go away.

Hey Luke, is there any way to filter comments from one particular author like an email filter?

Hey Luke, is there any way to filter comments from one particular author like an email filter?

Nope, sorry. Gotta take the pills along with the cheese.

I'll let the comments roll as long as things stay sufficiently civil. Let's play nice, everyone.

Hey superrookie, you said in the last two weeks 4 cyclists were popped for testosterone, who were they?

This reaks of the kid who says he is going to take his ball home if everyone else doesn't play by his rules.

Okay.

Hey Luke, is there any way to filter comments from one particular author like an email filter?

Hmmmm. Why don't you take your ball home now.

...

The person is not an idiot for enjoying their ride with Landis. They are an idiot for suggesting that he is a class act.

...

About Moniger. While it was contaminated supplements (I agree with this) I am pointing out that he fessed up about having them in his system. I hope that you are able to see that argument.

...

Landis is not a class act. LeMond is a class act. Merckx doped to the gills and was even busted, but claimed the old "someone drugged my water bottle defense." Merckx was asked to testify by the Landis camp for an explanation of 'tactics in racing' to explain the 'epic' ride on Stage 17. He didn't testify because there was no need.

LeMond testified because of a phone conversation he had with Landis that Landis innitiated.
...

Luke, keep up the great work on the site and thanks for opening this dialogue.

Your 'man-up' joke was hilarious.

Luke, the "filter comments" statement was made with tongue firmly placed in cheek. I guess that didn't come across.

1. Matias Kessler (Astana)June 28th

2. Marco Fertonani (Caisse d’Epargne) July 7th

3. Iban Mayo (Saunier Duval) June 15th? I know he has an exemption, but he did test positive, and with the number of TUE riders get I am a bit skeptical of his exemption. If you won't give me that one fine, but you can't say it isn't a little strange that his ONLY positive in the Giro came on the stage that he WON in epic fashion, while no other stage did he have adverse findings.

4. Ruggero Marzoli (Tinkoff)July 4th

While Marzoli is being questioned in the 2004 Oil For Drugs scandal evidence is reported to exist for the use of EPO, Synthetic Testosterone etc...

All 4 of those names are just a brief search of the past 3-4weeks of cycling. All have mentioned Testosterone.

I will even admit that the Mayo one is open to question as he has a TUE, but we can't deny that that the use of Testosterone in cycling has a performance enhancing purpose(a fact that Landis tried to dismiss in his case).

...

On a side-note a recent Australian Institute of Sport study(AIS) states the use of HGH has no individual impact in a cyclists performance when used alone. However, when used in conjunction with Testosterone the benifits are substantial.

The way I understood it, Mayo didn't use testosterone at all. He just has a T/E ratio that varies a lot. An IRMS test (done in Rome, not France) verified that he had no foreign testosterone in his system.

All I have to say is I enjoy the sport and don't want to be reminded of the darkside every race I watch on TV... I know what goes on behind closed doors in our sport and I don't approve of athletes using PEDs to gain an edge, but I'm aware that it's the people making the mistakes and not the sport itself.

Athletes are people and people can be assholes but pointing out that someone's hero is doping and fans rendering judgment on impartial information is bad for the sport.

Fair enough.

I don't like being told my favorite riders are dopers either (Hamilton, Landis or Moreau).
...
I personally just have an issue with the complicity people show when it comes to dopers.

Dare I say: "Yet another rider..."

But, remember Floyd said there isn't benefit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/jul07/jul18news4

Still refusing to look at the facts, eh super-rookie? The UCI lowered the limit from 6:1 to 4:1 (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul27news3) and now we have a rash of positives. Coincidence?

Also, you do know that the French only got Floyd's ratio at 11:1 [b]once[/b] out of three tests? The other two tests were within the range, but 11:1 is what they reported, even though they couldn't duplicate those results.

I do find it interesting that yet another rider tested positive for a high T/E. What I haven't heard is the results of the IRMS test.

I work with a guy who used to be a trainer with the Cubs and he suspects that there is a new synthetic testosterone that the labs don't know about and the makers are advertising as not detectable. He also told me a story about a steroid (nicknamed clear?) that a bunch of athletes were busted for during an summer olympic games. Evidently, an athlete fired their trainer and the trainer got revenge by supplying the IOC with a sample. I haven't verified the story, but I vaguely remember pieces of the story he told from when it happened.

The string of testosterone positives certainly makes you wonder if Floyd is innocent. Also, if Floyd was taking a new synthetic testosterone, then his defense of the "only 1 metabolite showed a positive" is gone in my eyes. But... there are so many other things that LNDD did wrong that you can't convict him on the evidence.

Also, what is especially troubling about Sinkewitz (sp?) is that T-Mobile has an anti-doping program and his use slipped through their tests. And worse yet, the sample was taken during a T-Mobile training camp!! In other words, he was taking it right under their noses. So much for T-Mobile's anti-doping testing. Back to the drawing board.

Hmmm. Testosterone still has no effects on performance?

Yet, another rider get popped for synthetic testosterone on stage 11.

I am starting to sound like a broken record!

...don't defend dopers. cast them out to the dawgz!

At the very least I would hope you'd agree that the manner in which WADA or the UCI or L'Equipe or whoever is leaking and announcing these test results in violation of their own rules is a gross disregard for riders' basic rights.

It's the same pattern of behaviour from LNDD, which immediately makes the results suspect.

I'm sad for the state of the sport, but I'll pass judgment once more facts are known. Right now no one knows anything.

Hmmm... Tested at the same lab that led to the Landis circus. AND the leaks from the lab continue breaking WADA's own rules. Can someone please confiscate the B sample and send it to the lab in Rome? WADA needs to step up and double their efforts so their findings cannot be questioned.

from the sounds of it Cofidis doesn't even want the 'b' sample tested.

...

the leaks are bad. yes. i agree with that.

but at what point are we all going to wake up and smell the strawberries and realize it is s#@t we are smelling?

these riders are dirty. so is landis. so is hamilton. it sucks to hear the truth.

The article I read didn't ask for the b sample because he confessed. Vino, on the other hand, is a different story. Sounds like he will defend himself vigourously. The biggest difference is that it sounds like his defence will be a lot like Hamiltons where he isn't going to question the testing, but he is going to try to come up with a reason why the test made a mistake because of something unique with him.

While I believe Landis' motivation against WADA is partly revenge, the fact that he will point out every time WADA or their labs break their own rules and do things incorrectly will go a long way toward anti-doping enforcement.

I am only a casual bike racing fan, but I do pay attention to the Tour de France when it comes around each year. It was something special to see Landis win it the year after Armstrong's last victory, and it was equally shocking to see the title stripped away from him.

Here's my question....It seems odd that a biker would choose to use testosterone to gain an immediate edge in a race. I thought that the benefits of testosterone usually came after a couple of weeks of use? It appears that Landis only failed one test during the race indicating that he didn't use it over a prolonged period of time. So would using it once really be a distinct advantage? If not, then surely he wouldn't have risked the race and his reputation on one testosterone injection.

I'm curious to hear from somebody who knows more about the drugs of choice for cyclists and how they use them. In my mind, it just doesn't add up...

It appears that Landis only failed one test during the race indicating that he didn't use it over a prolonged period of time. So would using it once really be a distinct advantage?

I'm hardly a Landis scholar or an expert on doping (Trust But Verify is your go-to source for such things) but one explanation I've heard is that people caught with high T/E have been using it all along, but on that particular day their masking agent failed. The person who gave this theory to me speculated when Landis was dehydrated and bonking the previous day, he was probably forgetting to take his masking agent when he should of.

But again, I'm not expert enough to say whether that explanation holds water. I just ride my bicycle.